Dr. McMillan Part II

[00:00:00] We all deserve to have fulfilling careers and lives. We deserve to experience joy, peace, and freedom—all of those things that make us feel truly alive.

[00:00:20] It takes a lot of courage for us to take the reins in our lives and take action that honors the deepest parts of ourselves in this current season of life. It takes a lot of courage to lean into growing and to lean into learning, and to know when it's time to make a change. I'm Arivee. I'm a first-generation Latina, mom of three, and life and high-performance coach to women just like you.

[00:00:50] And this podcast is for all of us looking to grow and learn and explore what a joyful and fulfilling life and [00:01:00] career can look like, and how to start living into that life right now. We're going to go deep, and we're going to honor our truth in this podcast. And the best thing is, we're going to do it together.

[00:01:13] So welcome to the Humble Rising Podcast.

[00:01:22] I'm so excited to bring you part two of my conversation with Tamra. If you haven't listened to part one, it's the episode right before this one. So go listen to part one first and then come back because part two is a continuation of part one, and you don't want to miss all the goodness and the richness from that full conversation.

[00:01:43] And if you have listened to part one, that's great. And before we dive into part two, a quick reminder on who Tamara is. Dr. Tamara McMillan is a distinguished author, speaker, and an award-winning educator. She has an impressive career spanning over 18 years in both [00:02:00] corporate and higher education settings, and her doctoral research focused on understanding the profound impact of failure on women entrepreneurs.

[00:02:09] Dr. McMillan specializes in leadership development and innovative problem-solving, and she is a certified expert in several domains, including the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, emotional intelligence, and the Seven Habits for Highly Effective People. She is also recognized as an advanced trainer for Foresight.

[00:02:29] She is the founder of Empower Me, an online community for women who want more in life. Empower Me teaches you strategies for increasing your confidence, shifting your mindset, and leveraging your life experiences, but with the support, tools, and all the love you need. Be sure to click the link in the show notes of this episode to learn more on how to join the community and the next cohort of women supporting one another within that community.

[00:02:56] You can also click the link in the show notes to [00:03:00] get Tamra's book called Liberation Now: Five Steps to Begin Realizing Your Dreams. Without further ado, here is part two of my conversation with Tamra. It's hard when you are, and this is for most of corporate America and like the legal profession, I mean, it's across the board.

[00:03:19] I think it's difficult to be one of the few and then to see like zero at the top because you're like, oh, I see. This is not a priority and this may not happen for me. And then it's the burden of like being the one person that tries to make it and go through all of that, even if it's not part of your why.

[00:03:38] Yeah. You see, like.

[00:03:40] Right, because, because you're one. You want to create the length of the people. Correct. Correct. So it's like, I'm already here, I'm close, but again, and you know, thank you, Universe, um, that you even mentioned that because one of the women, so in addition to my doctoral study, I did another study, right?

[00:03:57] So, you know, with some women on LinkedIn, because I [00:04:00] wanted to say, hey, is this real, real? So. Just a privilege, all of the women. Um, I think I spoke with an additional 21 women outside of research just to be sneak into. So when I say it's evidence-based, when I say it's research-based, girl, it's there. She was going to prove them wrong.

[00:04:17] She spoke the Queen's English. She, listen, had the suit. She had hair was always straight, round. And she was ready and she was signing up for things, committees and whatever. And she ended up, her health was compromised. She didn't go into detail and I didn't ask cause it wasn't important. But the very fact her health was compromised and she ended up having to leave altogether just due to all of the stress, right?

[00:04:46] The trauma. And like you said, the emotional anguish that comes with trying to change the minds of these white patriarchal men that, you know, we live in a patriarchal society as we know, [00:05:00] capitalistic, right? Imperialistic. And I don't know that we have enough time, energy, and effort as an individual to be kind of changing somebody's mind.

[00:05:09] The notion, the work is collective, right? It's collective. Everybody has to do their piece. Now we need all people on all sides, you know, all colors, nationality, social orientation, religions. We need all persons understanding the inequity and how damaging it is when we're not operating from diverse spaces.

[00:05:30] You know, the dangers of a single story even work, right? But everybody has to hold their end of the bag.

[00:05:37] Yeah. Tamara, I want to talk more about when you mentioned the redefinition of failure. Yeah. And I would love to talk more about that. And if you could talk about how women, which I'm assuming they've done, redefining what success means.

[00:05:55] All right, so I'll take the latter. Redefining success. Success for them, um, [00:06:00] it looked a myriad of ways, right? Because you're talking about, you know, different women in this particular study. So all of them did not have the same definition, but here are some of the few ways in which. Success again, especially for those that were 50 percent of the women and other participants in the study were minority.

[00:06:20] Success for them was the very fact that they were still in business. Let's talk about that, especially when we know, you know, 50 percent of businesses are failing within five years, right? And then, um, those that fail within that five years, the 50 percent of those, the majority of them are what women own businesses, right?

[00:06:39] So you and I know those statistics. Well, the Small Business Administration, right? U.S. Small Business Administration. So that's the first thing. The other thing, success was the redestination of. What it looked like for their business. So one of the other things that came out and I'll bring in one of the themes, it was titled [00:07:00] persistently flexible.

[00:07:01] That was success for them. So persistently flexible meant that I know that I'm supposed to be in business by myself. I know that I'm supposed to be an entrepreneur and I'm okay with having to change. I'm okay with the way in which I get there, but I know that the end in mind will be the same. So let me give you an example.

[00:07:20] Three of the women, so 37. 5 percent of the women had to pin in their business, so to speak, either because they're children or they were going through divorce, right? So just talking about the success. They knew that they were going to be a successful, they knew that they were going to be entrepreneurs, but they weren't tied to one idea or one or it looking one way or accomplishing the dream one way.

[00:07:50] They were persistently flexible. So I thought that was so amazingly beautiful. I'm like, Oh my goodness, I love this. I'm saying every time I [00:08:00] touched the research, I just felt, you know, deeper and deeper in love with it. Um, cause they just really spoke to me. It sparkled at me and it moved me forward because I understood as an entrepreneur, what it was that they were talking about, but I wanted other women to be able to talk about it as well.

[00:08:16] And I wanted to be able to be the one writing the stories and helping them bring their stories to life. So that was, you know, primarily one of, you know, two or three examples of the success. The redefining of failure, one, um, of the participant, she said, I scoff at the word. She said, because at the end of the day, if we're creating these metrics, there are metrics.

[00:08:39] So how can it be a failure if it's mine? I said, girl, so we're going through this interview. I had my battery of questions. I had my protocol.

[00:08:50] There wasn't any videos on because the videos were enabled because we did that to protect their identity and things of the nature of a gracious thing. I didn't even keep it straight. I didn't keep it [00:09:00] together. Um, what are the other ones? Boom! Participant six. She said, well, how else would I ever know success if I've never failed?

[00:09:11] I was, listen, when I tell you, um, another participant, um, she indicated that, she said it's the stepping stone to all good things, right? It gives you information. It gives you tooling.

[00:09:25] Data. It gives you data.

[00:09:27] Yeah. Of course, because again, now you get an opportunity, right? So this is your bottom. Now you get the opportunity to do what, assess it?

[00:09:33] And if it's not worth assessing, it ain't worth doing, right? It ain't worth doing. So those are three ways in which, you know, some of the participants redefined failure. My personal definition that you asked, I'm going to share anyway. I say this, if I am not failing, I'm not succeeding. And if I'm not standing on the edge, I'm probably taking up too much space.

[00:09:56] And not doing something worth mentioning. [00:10:00]

[00:10:01] Wait, let's talk about being at the edge a little bit. Talk a little bit more about what that feels like, what that means. Ooh, I like this, Tamara. I like this.

[00:10:08] So standing on the edge is, first and foremost, it's less crowded there. When you and I talked about, um, again, being Scorpios, and just celebrating your born days, and having time to reflect and rejuvenate and refuel self.

[00:10:22] When you're on the edge, you get to take in these deep breaths. You get to take in a different vantage point and you get to clear your mind because there are no noise there, it's not crowded. So that's the edge. The edge also sends a message to your life, your subconscious, right? Because we know our subconscious mind is stronger than our conscious mind, and it sends the message.

[00:10:45] It ought to be that my life is real. Hmm. Hmm. My life is real because I've taken the bold step. I've taken the risk. I have sailed. And I've gotten up and I've brushed myself off. I've learned, I've [00:11:00] utilized the information, the data. I've used it for the betterment of other people. So I say this, when unfortunate bad things, whatever, because it's all language, right?

[00:11:09] Semantics happen to us. Most times it's not our fault. However, it is our responsibility to leverage it. Because if it happened to you, it was for you. If it happened to you, it was for you. So, you know. Standing on the edge really is. This idea, this notion of trusting your process, because many times we've allowed individuals to narrate our story.

[00:11:36] How many times have you had individuals say to you, oh, you're good at this, you should become a doctor? Yes.

[00:11:42] Yes. Not a doctor, but other things. Yes.

[00:11:45] Other things. I mean, I would be

[00:11:48] flattered if that were true, but it's not going to be my thing.

[00:11:51] I'm with you on that. I'm like, what that man? In six seconds, statistics three times.

[00:11:57] I thought, you know, undergraduate master at the time of the [00:12:00] love. I said, listen, you ain't ever got to see me again. Those numbers you see in my dissertation, girl, are the page, the numbers on the page. I'm like, what? But that's the thing. And then. Again, we hold on to that. We hope, we think, oh, well, well, well, what's Simpson saying?

[00:12:15] And they care about me and they're my parents and my grandparents. And, and we hold on to these narratives that don't belong to us, but we don't have the strength, courage, or confidence to say, you know what, you know what, Grammy? You know what, Granddad, you know, Pop Pop, I really appreciate you thinking that highly of me, but you know what really sets my heart on fire is this.

[00:12:39] I know. And this is how I see this dream in my head. And oh my goodness, it would mean so much to me if you understood and would embrace that. How does that sound? Could you do that for me? Yeah. It just, and again, it's all language, but the other thing too, is it even when individuals are, um, Insistent, persistent, [00:13:00] and not agreeable.

[00:13:01] It still doesn't mean that you have to take it on because at the end of the day, they don't owe you anything. You don't owe them anything. And your life is your life. And that could be an example of what standing on the edge, standing up to your parents. Right. Standing up to someone that you really, really expect.

[00:13:17] Standing up to someone, even a boss. I remember, um, when I, they called me the serial quitter. So when I moved away from, um, I was associate director for leadership. Um, I was teaching the foundations of leadership at the collegiate level, teaching his class because, you know, I thought that this was going to be the next trajectory, the next, you know, part of my career in higher education.

[00:13:36] And we had a new director and, um, she came in, so she had us. Fill out these forms, kind of get a post, right, of what we wanted. And so she asked, of course, she said, well, what do you like least and what do you like most? And my top two was the first one was teaching. The second one was helping style or staff the deck in your favor, so they could become their very best selves, right?

[00:13:57] So we ended up having a meeting about what [00:14:00] I indicated. She said, "I don't understand how teaching showed up when it isn't in your job description." Right. So the former interim director asked, "What do you see yourself doing next?" I said, "This." She said, "So do I." So she made it happen. Right. But we never made it official.

[00:14:18] And because that's the academic side, I was on the student affairs side. So she says, "You know, back to this," she said, "Well, it's not connected to your job." Now, let me roll it back for, again, your audience and those individuals that are in the back that kind of missed that. I was the associate director for leadership.

[00:14:34] And I was teaching the foundations of leadership at the collegiate level, at the same institution. And she says, "Um, it's not connected, so I'm going to take it out. You won't be able to do that next semester." It was the fall of '16. I said, "Okay." That was it. It was at that moment that I knew that I was supposed to be doing that.

[00:14:54] Because what was the most disrespectful thing about it? There were a few things. First and foremost, all of the [00:15:00] areas that I was responsible for were thriving. Nothing had missed a beat, and then the most disrespectful, I was teaching for free. Oh, yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, no. So anytime someone says to you when your area is on par, all metrics are being met, programming is bar none, you're teaching on your own time, I'm teaching 50 minutes, right, that's my lunch hour, on campus.

[00:15:28] And I'm doing it for free, anybody, so for your audience, for your listeners, anyone who can hear me, the moment someone tells you you are not able to do something, you shouldn't be doing something and you're doing it for free, that means it's exactly what you're supposed to be doing. And so I resigned, I resigned maybe two or three months later.

[00:15:48] My resignation letter was three sentences in length. So she came in, she was like, "This was the shortest letter I've ever received." And I said, "Well, there isn't anything to talk about. I don't convince nor do I cajole. I am [00:16:00] who I am. I'm exacting." And that's a part of understanding who I am. And she was like, "Oh, okay."

[00:16:06] "Aimless to be." So when you pick yourself, nothing and no one can corrupt it.

[00:16:12] And Tamara, you know what I love about that story is that, um, one, you didn't feel the need to explain, right? There's no need to explain because you've already made your decision. You're grounded. It's informed. There's no question about it.

[00:16:23] You're like, "I'm just going to tell you I'm resigning." The second piece I really appreciate about it is, and I talk to women about this all the time, and I'm sure you do too, and all the work that you do is. It's instead of you ruminating and saying, "Oh my gosh, but then I really want to do this," and resisting the reality of her being like, "No, no, you're not doing that."

[00:16:43] You were like, "Okay, I have decisions to make. This is the reality. I may accept what this person has said and how they said it and what I want to do. And I don't agree with that. So I'm going to make a different decision for myself." That, that right there is where I feel like a lot of women get [00:17:00] stuck because they're, they, and then they start doing the whole like ping pong with their thoughts, "But what about this?

[00:17:05] And what about that? And what about this? What about that?" And I always say you have the power to make decisions, even when you're confronted with something that you don't like, that isn't aligned with you. You then have decisions to make. You have agency. You have some agency, even in the worst of situations.

[00:17:22] Right. I'm talking about like, in these kinds of situations, right. I am not talking about things like war and like, let's, I'm not talking about that stuff. We're not talking about that. But here, what I loved is your self agency and being anchored in who you are and what you want and what you're called to do and being like, "Okay, yeah, this is not aligned. I'm out. Peace."

[00:17:44] I love that you use agency. That's one of the most difficult things to teach college students, especially freshmen. So, I taught foundations of leadership, creative approaches to problem solving, limited gender studies, and, you know, a couple of other courses. And trying to say to freshmen, [00:18:00] "You have a say."

[00:18:01] So I tell them, "This is one of my other favorite quotes, 'Make a decision and make it right.'" So she made a decision, got you, heard you. I went home and I made a decision. So yeah, with my body talk practitioner, right? Um, inspiration coach. I said, "Listen, I need to put together a plan, right?" So we used our, again, craft of creativity.

[00:18:19] I solve problems for my clients. One of the other things that I do, I solve my own problem. I knew that I needed to. Continuously move in this particular space of alignment and in honoring what the universe gave me to do, because guess what? Self-betrayal is the worst kind of betrayal. Yes. So how many times I've already betrayed myself more times than I would ever want to be counted again.

[00:18:42] And now that I can be steeped in what it is that I know. Oh, absolutely not. We're not going there. Girl came up with a kick butt plan, got everything situated, got my finances in order, both, um, facilitated and taught for six months. And then guess what? I got the opportunity. I'll be like, "Hey, we want [00:19:00] you to direct this 1.

[00:19:01] 3 million dollar grant. For the step program." Because when you pick yourself, the universe is just waiting for you. Yes, it's waiting. Oh,

[00:19:11] you know how many times I have this conversation with people, I'm like, you are not doing the thing for the universe to respond. The universe is waiting for you to do something.

[00:19:19] It's not going to come to you. It's waiting for you to open up. So then it's like, "Oh, now you're ready. Here it is."

[00:19:28] Listen, I tell people, I says, you know, and again, so going back to the savior. So I have a wonderful, um, connection for that. I say, "Superman ain't coming to the ghetto. He's not coming to save you, Lois Lane, so stop waiting for somebody to pick you and pick your damn self."

[00:19:43] Yes. Yes. I think. You have to.

[00:19:46] Yeah. Okay. Tamara, we're nearing the end of our time together. And so before we go, I want to ask you a few more questions, if that's okay. Okay. Absolutely. Okay. So, I mean, you've talked about a lot and you've been [00:20:00] dropping knowledge like fire. Like I told you, you would. Okay. What is though, if you could, this is going to be a hard question.

[00:20:08] If you could have women listening to this, take away one thing, you're like, if you've listened to nothing else, take away this one piece of advice or this one offering or invitation, what would it be? I know that's broad.

[00:20:24] It is. And I get you. You have everything that you need, but you need a band and squad to help you navigate the space.

[00:20:32] Hmm. So when the negative narration shows up, when the negative Nancy shows up, when somebody's trying to beat you down, you have this safe container to be like, "I'm gonna be, oh my goodness, girl." And then I'd be like, "No, listen, okay, this is what we gonna do." Like I had in, again, my inspiration coach, I was like, "Listen, I need to make this move."

[00:20:50] "What do you do?" I go to my innovation coach. "I need to really take this idea and make it better." "Okay. Here's." It's holding you up, but holding you [00:21:00] responsible. And who can you trust your dreams with? Listen, everybody don't deserve a front seat. Some people don't even need to be in the building.

[00:21:06] Nope.

[00:21:07] Sometimes we get too trusting of people that don't deserve that trust or that aren't in the place, the position to receive that trust. Like it's Right, because

[00:21:14] you know why? Because sometimes we're holding on to these raggedy relationships. The social contract has already been fulfilled and you're still holding on to it.

[00:21:24] And guess what? There's nothing new that can come into your orbit of your space because you're still carrying this, Eric already told you, carrying this baggage. It's just like, why do you clean out your closet? How can you go into a new season with a wardrobe from five years ago? We cannot. Absolutely. You cannot, not only did you not have the space, and you're not even looking like you're ready for the opportunity anyway.

[00:21:46] Right. Right. And universe is looking at you like you need to change your wardrobe boo.

[00:21:50] You now you ain't even ready. You're not even ready. You're not even ready. You don't even, you don't even look the part and not even forward me outward. For yourself. For you, yes. For [00:22:00] yourself, for yourself. Like, listen, let, let, let's mix.

[00:22:03] Master this for real. All right, Tam. All right.

[00:22:05] Two final questions. Rapid fire. So I know it's hard for us because we get into, we start vibing. Scorpion energy. I know.

[00:22:15] Yeah, but no, no worries. I'm here.

[00:22:17] Okay. What's your favorite book? Okay. You can do more than one, more

[00:22:21] than one. The Alchemist. Oh, it's one of my favorite books.

[00:22:25] Yeah. I reread that all the time, girl. Listen, I got the 25th edition. We've given the office to students. We've had programs around it. When I Yes. It's one of my favorite

[00:22:34] books. I love that. Um, do you have a, a mantra? Oh wait,

[00:22:38] and then mine, my books. Okay. Yes. Five steps to realizing your dreams. But that's, that's, yeah.

[00:22:46] I put Kwame Oyle over me because he's a brilliant. No,

[00:22:49] but you will, we will include the link to, to all your stuff in the show notes. So. People that are listening, you can scroll down in the show notes and we'll put that link, those links. Tamara, uh, last question. Sure. A mantra or saying it could be yours or someone else's that really helps motivate you or inspire you or allows you to navigate challenging times.

[00:23:13] I have a mantra and it's long as hell. Go. I am from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet. God made me for everything about me is perfectly imperfect. I am sound and secure mentally, emotionally, physically, psychologically, neurologically, physiologically until the age 100. Everything that I touch turns platinum and everything that I want wants me.

[00:23:32] Mic drop. I'm just gonna say bye now.

[00:23:37] Do you have that on a plaque or something that you sell?

Here's the proofread version:

[00:23:40] No, I'm going to have to, you know, I want to put it on a journal. You need to.

[00:23:46] Yes. You need to put that on a journal and sell it and, and I would

[00:23:51] love done. That's amazing. Thank you so much, Tamara. I appreciate it. That's so good for [00:24:00] my soul.

[00:24:00] Me too. I feel, I feel very connected to you.

[00:24:06] As the new colored plurals get ready to be released in December.

[00:24:11] Yeah. Well, thank you. No, thank you so much for your wisdom. And I love that your content and what you are bringing. Is research based, like in your own research. I love that. I love that you yourself have spoken to so many women and that's why the stuff that you're sharing is so real and relatable because it's true because it's grounded in research and it's evidence based.

[00:24:34] I think that's really powerful. So thank you so much for like your energy, all the work that you do, all the light that you bring. Like you have a bright, bright, bright light and a bright spirit and I can feel that through the Zoom and I just want to thank you so much for all the nuggets and the gems that you've been dropping.

[00:24:52] I just really appreciate

[00:24:53] you. Well, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. Um, I appreciate the platform and I appreciate you for what you do and [00:25:00] understanding that it's important for us to have these platforms. Where we can have these open and honest dialogues and not feel like we have to censor our material.

[00:25:07] Right? Because it's important, again, as we talked about earlier during this exchange, we have to begin narrating our own stories. So if nothing else, no one can't say they didn't know. Now whether they choose to embrace and accept and move forward with it, that's on them. But once we've told the story and once you've been put on notice, you cannot claim You ain't know, you can't claim stupid, you can't claim ignorant, you can't, you know, all of those things when the resource and the information is there.

[00:25:37] And I think the other thing too is Just play interference for me while I try to navigate and I don't know, it's, and my life is upside down. I just got laid off, you know, my husband just asked for a divorce, whatever, my kid is sick. Play interference for me and give me a warm space to lay these burdens down because sometimes I feel like I'm going crazy.

[00:25:57] Yes. That's what we

[00:25:59] need. Yep. [00:26:00] And I want to be able to feel safe and say, I feel like I'm going crazy instead of someone's response and being like, Oh, but you should be so grateful that you have children and that you, I'm like, that's not, no, that's not helpful to me. You

[00:26:12] missed it. Right. Exactly. And then the other thing too, is that we'll take care of your words and take care of you and end on you.

[00:26:20] We had, uh, one of the members really, really quick story. One of the members of our tribe just went through, I think it was a one year anniversary in January. Her daughter was cute. Um, we still, I don't, don't, don't think they still know everything. When I tell you the tribe showed up, sent the flowers, we were online.

[00:26:40] Cause that's when we're still in the height of the pandemic. We were online for the service, the ceremony, you know, we do brunch. We put our arms around her. What do you need? You know, supporting her. She's beginning now to tell the story and, you know, saying, Hey, you know, here's some ideas and ways in which you might want to tell the story when you're ready, I know that we're always ready.

[00:27:00] We're holding space for you. Yeah. This could be three hours. Yeah.

[00:27:05] I know, I know, I know. Tamra, thank you so

[00:27:08] much. You're welcome. My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Have a dynamic day. Oh, you too. Oh, you too.

[00:27:43] If you're a woman lawyer or a woman working in other fast-paced corporate environments, and you're looking to feel less overwhelmed and unsure, and more empowered and fulfilled in your career and your personal life, join [00:28:00] my Women Empowering Women email community by going to Arevivargas.com to sign up.

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